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Hearing: 7th September 2009, day 58
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PUBLIC INQUIRY INTO THE DEATH OF
ROBERT HAMILL
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Held at:
Interpoint
20-24 York Street
Belfast
on Monday, 7th September 2009
commencing at 2.00 pm
Day 58
1 Monday, 7th September 2009
2 (2.00 pm)
3 (Proceedings delayed)
4 (2.15 pm)
5 MR UNDERWOOD: Good afternoon, sir. Kevin Whitehead,
6 please.
7 MR ARTHUR KEVIN WHITEHEAD (sworn)
8 Questions from MR UNDERWOOD
9 MR UNDERWOOD: Good afternoon, Mr Whitehead.
10 A. Good afternoon.
11 Q. My name is Underwood. I am Counsel to the Inquiry.
12 I have a few questions for you. After I have finished,
13 it may well be there will be some others to follow up.
14 Can I ask you your full names, please?
15 A. Arthur Kevin Whitehead.
16 Q. If we get up on screen a document that starts at
17 page [81258], can I ask you to keep your eye on it while
18 we flick through the four pages?
19 A. Certainly.
20 Q. Is that your witness statement?
21 A. It is, yes.
22 Q. Are the contents true?
23 A. They are, sir, yes.
24 Q. Thank you. I want to ask you to help us a little more
25 on one or two of the paragraphs. Can I take you to
1
1 paragraph 7 at page [81259]?
2 A. Right.
3 Q. What we are dealing with here is some dealings you had
4 with Mrs McKee. You are describing here a point at
5 which you talked to her about the threatening letter --
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. -- that emerged. You say in the second sentence:
8 "When I had seen her on previous occasions, I felt
9 she was nervous about giving evidence but in control.
10 On the day she received the letter, there was a change
11 in her demeanour. Ms McKee was very concerned about her
12 safety and that of her child. I think her partner was
13 present at the time I saw her."
14 So far as you were concerned, was there any reason
15 to disbelieve her about that concern that she was
16 expressing?
17 A. None. There was a difference in her demeanour and
18 I felt it was because of the letter. I had nothing to
19 suggest otherwise.
20 Q. Okay. Then if we go further down the page -- in fact,
21 if we can have this page and the next page up on screen
22 together, that would help. Let's see if we can
23 highlight paragraph 9 that flows over both pages. Just
24 keep your eyes on the blue boxes:
25 "On 21st December 2003, Ms McKee had informed the
2
1 PSNI that she could not give evidence at the trial in
2 Northern Ireland due to commence on 22nd December 2003.
3 I was asked by the PSNI to look into the genuineness of
4 her reasons for not being able to attend, that is
5 whether her child was sick. Ms McKee had claimed to
6 have taken her son to Pendine Park on Friday,
7 19th December 2003, which operated as an out-of-hours
8 service for the area."
9 You go on to talk about that. I want to ask you
10 a couple of things about this paragraph. The first is
11 what you were asked to do around 22nd December. You
12 tell us on the left-hand side of the page:
13 "I was asked by the PSNI to look into the
14 genuineness of her reasons for not being able to
15 attend ..."
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. We know you took a statement, which, in fact, turned out
18 to be two statements, from the GP. Were you asked, at
19 that stage, to dig any further; for example, to get
20 a medical report?
21 A. No, I was asked to ascertain whether she had contacted
22 either the out-of-hours doctor or any other doctor in
23 the area.
24 Q. I want to come back to that separately. I want to deal
25 with the GP for the moment. You say there:
3
1 "I was asked by the PSNI to look into the
2 genuineness of her reasons for not being able to attend,
3 that is whether her child was sick."
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. As I say, we know, and we can go to them, if necessary,
6 that you took two statements from the actual GP --
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. -- never mind the out-of-hours.
9 A. That's right.
10 Q. The GP set out in those the dealings he had had with the
11 child in December. On that point, and that point alone,
12 just the GP, were you asked to do anything more, for
13 example, to get a medical report?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. Right. The second thing I want to ask you about this
16 paragraph is this business about Pendine Park --
17 A. Right.
18 Q. -- and the out-of-hours. Can I get you to look at
19 page [34055]? This is a fax I think from you, is it?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. It is to the CID in Northern Ireland. Looking at the
22 substance of it, you say:
23 "Please find statement from" and we have taken the
24 doctor's name out of there:
25 "Sorry for the delay, but he is not as keen on
4
1 keeping records as I thought."
2 Then you go on:
3 "Re: statement from Pendine GP office - the
4 afternoon shift will visit when they open at 6.00 pm
5 tonight - and they will fax any relevant statements to
6 you."
7 A. That's correct.
8 Q. The first we see of a reference to Pendine in the
9 documents is 30th December.
10 A. Right.
11 Q. If I can then take you to [34052], this is what looks
12 like an action from you. It is a fax. It is headed
13 31st December 2003 and it is dated 31/12/2003 at the
14 bottom. If I just take you to the text, the first
15 paragraph.
16 A. Right.
17 Q. "Please visit the Pendine surgery (at the back of the
18 nursing home) and speak to staff regarding a young boy",
19 and we have taken his name and address out, "from ...
20 "It appears that on the evening of
21 19th December 2003, his mother, Andrea, [blank] rang the
22 surgery for a doctor to attend to her son. The surgery
23 advised her to give the son Calpol," and you go on
24 there.
25 Having now seen those documents again, can you help
5
1 us about whether you were asked before 30th December to
2 look into Pendine?
3 A. I truthfully can't remember the exact dates.
4 Q. Okay. Thank you.
5 A. I think, if I can just add -- it might help -- there was
6 a surgery called the Strathmore surgery, which I believe
7 is where her doctor actually was. The Pendine is
8 a totally separate entity.
9 Q. Yes.
10 A. So the two things were done in conjunction, the
11 Strathmore and the Pendine.
12 Q. What seems to have happened -- let's see if this jogs
13 your memory -- was you got a statement from the GP on,
14 I think, the 24th.
15 A. Right.
16 Q. Then, because that missed a home visit out, you got
17 another statement from him which you attached to that
18 fax we just looked at on, I think, the 30th.
19 It looks like -- and help us, if you can, on this --
20 you are dealing with the detectives in Northern Ireland,
21 and on the 30th they say, "While you are at it, can you
22 have a look at Pendine please"?
23 A. It would seem, yes, that would seem correct. I must be
24 honest and say I can't remember the exact timetable.
25 Q. Because you act on it or you say you are going to act on
6
1 it by asking the afternoon shift to look that day.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Then you do act on it by doing just that.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Can you help us with what sort of speed you would have
6 usually acted on this sort of thing at that stage?
7 Would you have waited a week or so if you had been
8 asked?
9 A. No, I would have done it immediately.
10 Q. That's helpful. Thank you. I want to move on to
11 something else and see if you can help us about it. Can
12 we look at page [33913], please? No earthly reason to
13 believe you will ever have seen this before.
14 A. Okay.
15 Q. It is a record of events. If we look at paragraphs 31
16 and 32, this is dealing with some events that occurred
17 after what we have just been talking about. Can I just
18 read them to you?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. "As a result of this meeting", and we need not concern
21 ourselves with that, "on Friday, 27th February 2004
22 before resident magistrates at Craigavon Magistrates'
23 Court, Ivor Morrison appeared to request the court to
24 adjourn consideration of the validity of the conditional
25 adjournment granted on 22nd December 2003 and take the
7
1 case out of the list for 8th March 2004 when the
2 committal proceedings proper had been due to begin if
3 all was in order. The basis of the application was that
4 extensive enquiries had not yet yielded completely
5 satisfactory proof of all the circumstances upon which
6 the prosecution had relied in seeking the adjournment on
7 22nd December 2003. For the Atkinsons and [blank]
8 objected to the application on the basis that, on
9 22nd December, the defence and the court had been told
10 that Andrea McKee's child was seriously ill with
11 testicular mumps. This he said was simply not true as
12 the only proof presented so far was that the child had
13 an ear infection. He said that the court might have
14 taken a different view if it had been told only that the
15 child had an ear infection. He rehearsed some of the
16 history of the case and the difficulties for his
17 clients.
18 "Richard Monteith, on behalf of Kenneth Hanvey, said it was
19 even worse than Mr [blank] described, in that
20 Mr Morrison and Miss Smyth had been told what was
21 a 'blatant lie', an 'utter lie'. He also rehearsed some
22 of the history of the case and the difficulties which
23 taking it out of the list on 8th March would cause. The
24 resident magistrate indicated that he considered the
25 situation most unsatisfactory, that it appeared that the
8
1 court had previously been misled."
2 We know from that that there is this event on
3 27th February 2004. The matter comes back to court and
4 there is all this fuss about how ill the child had been
5 on 22nd December and what the court had been told on
6 22nd December.
7 All I want to ask you about this is, after
8 27th February 2004, did anybody come back to you to say,
9 "Please go and see the GP and ask him how ill this child
10 actually was or what he told the mother"?
11 A. No.
12 MR UNDERWOOD: Thank you very much. Those are the only
13 questions I have for you. As I say, others may have
14 some more questions.
15 A. Thank you.
16 Questions from MR O'HARE
17 MR O'HARE: Mr Whitehead, you recall being interviewed by
18 this Inquiry on 12th April 2006.
19 A. That's correct.
20 Q. You were asked what was your own view on the PSNI as far
21 as their commitment to Andrea was.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. You told the Inquiry on that date, and I am quoting:
24 "I think they were very professional. I have to say
25 that they were very professional. They were very
9
1 courteous, definitely knew what they wanted to do and
2 I was given clear instructions basically."
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. That is still your view today?
5 A. Absolutely. Yes, sir.
6 MR O'HARE: Thank you.
7 Questions from MR EMMERSON
8 MR EMMERSON: I just want to return, if I may, to the
9 questions that you were asked by Mr Underwood a little
10 while ago about the precise sequence of events that led
11 to the enquiries that were made at the Pendine surgery.
12 Could I just go through with you, if I may, one or
13 two other documents just to make sure we have the
14 sequence absolutely right? Because one of the
15 questions, just so you can see the context, that has
16 been raised is whose idea it was to start investigating
17 the Pendine visit and where and how that inquiry came
18 into existence. Do you see?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Now, first of all, have you been shown a cipher list?
21 A. This document I have been given here --
22 Q. That's probably the one.
23 A. -- with initials on it? Yes.
24 Q. If you look at the initial H --
25 A. Yes.
10
1 Q. -- that's a name that you recognise?
2 A. Yes, it is.
3 Q. Good. Can we please look at page [59897]? You can see
4 towards the top of that that this is a record, an entry
5 of a diary of events relating to this aspect of the
6 investigation compiled, as you can see in the top line,
7 by H.
8 A. Right.
9 Q. If we could just turn over the page, so [59898], please
10 and H's entries for the 30th, and then focus on the very
11 last six lines or so from 30th December:
12 "December, 30th.
13 "0900. Duty Gough - admin updated records -- duty
14 reference supervision and office post."
15 Then this:
16 "Spoke to D/C Kevin Whitehead, Wrexham CID reference
17 calling Dr [blank] surgery."
18 Then if we can just carry on on the following page,
19 please [59899] and enlarge really right down to the
20 first -- that's perfect.
21 "To establish further details of treatment for
22 Andrea McKee child. He", that is you", later rang back
23 and said that was all they had on records as per
24 statement of evidence from Dr [blank]. I later
25 contacted Andrea McKee who stated that Dr [blank] had
11
1 called at her home on 11th evening and prescribed
2 antibiotics and nose drops and, also, on 19/12, she had
3 telephoned the Pendine Park out-of-hours clinic at night
4 because of the child's high temperature and she was told
5 to give him Calpol and to phone back in half an hour.
6 She did this and as time child's temperature hadn't went
7 down and that both her and her partner went to
8 Pendine Park where they saw a lady doctor - Wrexham CID
9 to call with Dr [blank] and Pendine out-of-hours
10 clinic."
11 Do you see that?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Pausing there, I think -- and I will be corrected if
14 I am wrong -- this is the very first reference to the
15 Pendine surgery.
16 A. Right.
17 Q. This is the first time Andrea McKee told
18 Detective Inspector H about Pendine surgery.
19 A. Right.
20 Q. We can see that immediately he was told, he then
21 communicates with you.
22 A. Right.
23 Q. You can see at the bottom that, as a result of that
24 call, it was agreed, it appears, between you, that
25 Wrexham would, amongst other things, contact the Pendine
12
1 out-of-hours clinic.
2 A. Right.
3 Q. Now presumably, when you received that request, you
4 assumed that all you would be doing is acquiring yet
5 further confirmatory evidence to establish that the
6 account that Andrea McKee had given was true?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. There was no suggestion to you there was any attempt
9 taking place to discredit her or anything of that kind?
10 A. Not at all.
11 Q. This inquiry was one which was generated police force to
12 police force?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. If we can then just pick it up, please, at 30455.
15 I am sorry. We are going to need to jump about
16 a little. This is the next in time, so far as one can
17 see, which you have looked at briefly earlier on. It is
18 a fax from yourself to Detective Inspector H. We have
19 looked with Mr Underwood at the second portion to that.
20 Now, this fax is dated -- you can see the date on
21 the main body of the document -- 30th December. It
22 seems to have gone out, according to the time-line at
23 the top, at around 3.50 in the afternoon or possibly
24 4.50 in the afternoon. It is a bit difficult to read,
25 but certainly at around that sort of time. It records
13
1 that in relation to the statement from Pendine:
2 "The afternoon shift will visit when they open at
3 6.00 pm tonight and fax any relevant statements to you."
4 Now presumably, because it was an out-of-hours
5 surgery it had to be late-turn duty officers who
6 conducted the visit.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Those who were on duty in the evening.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. If we now turn to [34057] which I don't think we looked
11 at earlier on, there is then a fax from you the
12 following day explaining what happened next. So this is
13 31st December.
14 "Re the statement from Pendine GP centre, Wrexham,
15 late turn 30th December were unable to visit the centre
16 and obtain a statement. The late-turn DS for
17 31st December will now visit tonight and fax the
18 statement of evidence direct as soon as possible."
19 Do you see that?
20 A. Yes, I do.
21 Q. So it not having been possible to do it the previous
22 day, you then issued instructions on the 31st for that
23 to occur. Then if we briefly remind ourselves of
24 [34052], which you looked at with Mr Underwood, we can
25 see that's dated the 31st.
14
1 A. Right.
2 Q. That's presumably instructions to the late turn on the
3 31st. Correct?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. If we now turn, please, to [34051], this is a fax which
6 appears to be in response to those instructions.
7 I don't know if you remember -- I don't ask you to give
8 it -- DC 1113. Is that somebody --
9 A. 15.
10 Q. I am sorry. I can't see that. I do apologise. Could
11 you say that again?
12 A. It is DC 1115.
13 Q. I am sorry. It is not entirely clear. I have done my
14 best to decipher the handwriting. It seems to say:
15 "Sir, I have attended the Pendine surgery and
16 recorded statement of evidence from Dr [blank]. He can
17 find no record of the call, but if the date is wrong,
18 that would be a different matter. In addition, caller
19 may have phoned NHS Direct. If you require further
20 assistance, don't hesitate to contact me."
21 Does that appear correct?
22 A. That's correct.
23 Q. So that was a fax sent, as you can see, if we just draw
24 back to the full document, directly by this officer to
25 Ivor Morrison at the DPP's department?
15
1 A. Right.
2 Q. That, I think, was what you had said should happen in
3 instructions that you had issued on the 31st?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Thank you. I am sorry. The time is pointed out to me.
6 We are now looking at what looks like 6.50 in the
7 evening.
8 A. I have "faxed at 20.05".
9 Q. I am sorry, you are looking at the very top?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. There we go. The time recorded on the cover sheet is
12 18.50, but that would be consistent with a short delay
13 whilst that took place.
14 If we just very briefly look at [34044], this is
15 apparently the witness statement dated 31/12 which was
16 attached to that fax from Pendine surgery explaining
17 that, according to their records, there had been no
18 attendance on the dates that had been given. Do you see
19 that?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. If we now go, please, back to [59899], the issue having
22 been raised whether she may be mistaken about her
23 dates -- do you see that in the earlier documents?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. If we then go to the bottom half of the page, DI H's
16
1 records recall after the first few lines:
2 "Andrea McKee reference calling at Pendine Park.
3 She was adamant that she called on the weekend prior to
4 22nd."
5 So it seems, does it not, that the question of could
6 she be mistaken about her dates has been raised with
7 her?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. She is adamant that she is right about her dates?
10 A. Yes.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, the weekend, which would be the 20th
12 and the 21st, two days.
13 MR EMMERSON: Yes.
14 "Relayed same to Wrexham CID, Kevin Whitehead. I
15 also spoke to Ivor Morrison, reference same."
16 Do you see that?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Then it says:
19 "Duty Gough. Reference receiving fax."
20 Then over the page, [59900], it says:
21 "From Wrexham CID."
22 I am not sure what that means, but be that as it
23 may.
24 Finally in this little sequence, if we go to
25 [34041], we can see that on the following day, you
17
1 having been told that she is adamant on the dates she
2 had been given, and which have been checked, are
3 correct, you then indicate -- this is a fax I presume --
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. -- from yourself to Detective Inspector H:
6 "All the records for the whole weekend from
7 18th December have been checked tonight.
8 "They have no records of any calls made by Andrea
9 and no records of a doctor visiting her address over
10 that period of time.
11 "The on-call locum doctor for that weekend has also
12 been spoken to, and, again, there are no records
13 regarding Andrea.
14 "It's not much help to you."
15 Then I think you ask again:
16 "Is it possible that she has her weekends mixed up"?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Thank you. If we then just turn back to your witness
19 statement at [81260], that's the document that you then
20 refer to at paragraph 13 at the bottom, I see.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. If we could just turn to [81261], paragraph 15, the last
23 sentence of that paragraph -- pausing there for
24 a moment, Mr Whitehead, it is clear from what you have
25 told us that this was a routine police enquiry that led
18
1 to a situation unexpectedly --
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. -- in which an account that she had given turned out not
4 to be supported by the exploration that you had made.
5 A. I could find nothing to support it, sir.
6 Q. You say at the very bottom of that:
7 "I was never informed the prosecution had been
8 dropped, but I was aware that the result of my enquiries
9 would cause problems in Northern Ireland."
10 What did you mean by that?
11 A. Only in as much that I knew she was a witness in a major
12 trial and I think it would be fair to say that I had
13 come to the conclusion that, because she was a major
14 witness, if she didn't appear or didn't turn up, then
15 obviously there would be serious consequences.
16 Q. Yes. Why did your enquiries, in your view -- were they
17 likely to cause problems?
18 A. Sorry, can you repeat question?
19 Q. Why was it, in your view, that your enquiries were
20 likely to cause problems because of that? What problems
21 are you referring to?
22 A. I am not quite sure. Only in as much I can say that, if
23 she was not telling the truth, then clearly there would
24 be an issue. So it was important for me to do them
25 correctly. That's probably what I mean.
19
1 MR EMMERSON: Yes. Thank you.
2 Questions from MR DALY
3 MR DALY: Just a couple of matters, Mr Whitehead. If we
4 could look at [81259], please, and if paragraph 5 could
5 be highlighted, please. You have written there:
6 "My instructions were to be a local point of contact
7 in Wrexham for Ms McKee if she needed anything. My job
8 was essentially to stay in contact with her, make sure
9 she was safe and report to the PSNI if any problems
10 arose. I called her daily on the telephone to check on
11 her safety. We also put procedures in place so that, if
12 there was a police call to the house, it would be
13 treated as urgent."
14 Can you say over approximately what period of time
15 this was your job in relation to Ms McKee, for what
16 duration of time?
17 A. From the moment -- well, from the moment -- I was the
18 only point of contact for her in North Wales police, so
19 from the moment the PSNI contacted us, it was from that
20 time.
21 Q. You have indicated previously it was in and around
22 2003 --
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. -- that you were contacted.
25 A. Yes.
20
1 Q. So you contacted Ms McKee, according to your statement,
2 daily thereafter?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Was there ever any particular difficulty in getting in
5 touch with her?
6 A. I can't recall any, sir, no.
7 Q. Did she communicate with you freely and speak to you
8 reasonably openly?
9 A. Yes. There was no issues at all.
10 Q. There were no issues at all?
11 A. No, up to the point that the letter arrived.
12 Q. Up until December 2003?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. If we just look at the bottom of that page, paragraph 9,
15 if it could be highlighted, you have written there:
16 "On 21st December 2003, Ms McKee had informed the
17 PSNI that she could not give evidence at the trial in
18 Northern Ireland ..."
19 Is your understanding in relation to that that it
20 was her who had contacted the PSNI about the problem?
21 A. Yes, it was my understanding, sir, yes.
22 Q. It wasn't the situation where people had turned up at
23 court and there was just no attendance from somebody,
24 but she had proactively taken the steps to contact the
25 PSNI?
21
1 A. I wouldn't have been aware of that, sir, no. It was my
2 understanding from her.
3 Q. If we go over the page at [81260], if paragraph 10 could
4 be highlighted:
5 "On 24th December 2003, a statement was obtained
6 from Dr [blank] at Strathmore surgery confirming that
7 Andrea McKee's son had been seen at surgery on the 1st
8 and 22nd December 2003. A copy of that statement was
9 faxed to the RUC on 24th December 2003."
10 So it is clear from that that her son attended the
11 surgery on the 22nd?
12 A. Yes.
13 MR DALY: Thank you.
14 MR UNDERWOOD: I have no questions arising out of that.
15 Thank you.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Are we going to see the threatening letter at
17 some stage?
18 MR UNDERWOOD: Certainly, if you wish to see it.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: It might be helpful to us just to see it.
20 MR UNDERWOOD: Of course.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
22 MR UNDERWOOD: Unless there is anything more?
23 THE CHAIRMAN: No.
24 MR UNDERWOOD: Thank you very much, Mr Whitehead.
25 A. Thank you, sir.
22
1 (The witness withdrew)
2 MR UNDERWOOD: We have a HOLMES copy of the letter,
3 obviously not the original, at page [58443], sir. You
4 see it is headed:
5 "Andrea McKee.
6 "Accept this letter as your one and only warning.
7 "You are strongly advised you are not to appear at
8 any court as a tout for the RUC to give evidence against
9 Kenneth Hanvey and Robert Atkinson.
10 "We advise you to remain safely in your own country
11 and take no part in the above court case.
12 "If you do appear in court you will be punished",
13 underlined,"you for your actions.
14 "At a time convenient to us, your property will be
15 attacked and destroyed, burned out.
16 "You, yourself, will be located and beaten for your
17 actions.
18 "Your requested failure to appear in court will
19 result in no further action or communication from us.
20 "We trust in your full cooperation.
21 "On behalf of the LVF.
22 "Protecting the Protestants of Portadown.
23 "For God and Ulster - no surrender."
24 You will be hearing from a witness protection
25 officer who was sent over to discuss with Mrs McKee the
23
1 prospect of moving home as a result of this and you will
2 also be hearing from DCI K and DCI H, their dealings
3 with Mrs McKee after she received this as well.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. We have had evidence already that she
5 was still, after the receipt of this letter, prepared to
6 assist the prosecution.
7 MR UNDERWOOD: Yes. As you heard on Friday, I think it was,
8 she, in fact, attended at the consultation in
9 Northern Ireland with a view to attending again at
10 a further hearing on 8th March.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
12 MR UNDERWOOD: Sir, that's the oral evidence for today.
13 I am hoping that we can conclude Mr McBurney's
14 transcripts and tapes or at least listen to some more of
15 them.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
17 (Recorded interview of Maynard McBurney continued to be
18 played)
19 MR UNDERWOOD: If we could just pause it for a moment.
20 I don't know how easy it is. I wonder if we can jump to
21 halfway down page 197? There is some redaction that got
22 missed. I will leave that to those who know.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: I think the stenographers could be released
24 until 4.30. Do we need them even then?
25 MR UNDERWOOD: I don't know. I can never tell, to be frank,
24
1 whether they like to stay in for the sake of confidence
2 that they don't miss anything.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: There it is. I will leave it to you.
4 MR UNDERWOOD: Sorry about this, sir. It is entirely my
5 responsibility.
6 (Recorded interview of Maynard McBurney continued to be
7 played)
8 THE CHAIRMAN: I think there may be more that has to come
9 out.
10 MR UNDERWOOD: I think it is a case for a short adjournment.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: I think that last bit should have been
12 redacted too.
13 (2.55 pm)
14 (A short break)
15 (3.05 pm)
16 MR UNDERWOOD: I do apologise. The transcript has been
17 jumped now so that we are ready to pick it up at a safe
18 place.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
20 (Recorded interviewed of Maynard McBurney continued to be
21 played)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: I think we will stop there. There are
23 32 minutes, I think.
24 MR UNDERWOOD: As I indicated, there is an allocation to be
25 made in closed session by a gentleman who has not been
25
1 party to these proceedings. Perhaps I can ask for the
2 chamber to be cleared.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. We will stay here.
4 MR UNDERWOOD: I wonder if there is an indication of the
5 start time tomorrow?
6 THE CHAIRMAN: What time do we need to start? 10 o'clock or
7 10.30?
8 MR UNDERWOOD: We will comfortably get through the evidence
9 if we sit at 10.30. It is just a question of whether
10 there is anything lingering from the application you are
11 just about to hear that needs dealt with before we start
12 the evidence.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Shall we get through the evidence and the
14 remains of Mr McBurney?
15 MR UNDERWOOD: I think comfortably.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Say 10.30 then.
17 (4.40 pm)
18 (The hearing then went into closed session and adjourned
19 until 10.20 am on Tuesday, 8th September 2009)
20 --oo0oo--
21 I N D E X
22
23
MR ARTHUR KEVIN WHITEHEAD (sworn) ................ 1
24 Questions from MR UNDERWOOD ............... 1
Questions from MR O'HARE .................. 9
25 Questions from MR EMMERSON ................ 10
Questions from MR DALY .................... 20
26
1
(Recorded interview of ........................... 24
2 Maynard McBurney continued to
be played)
3
(Recorded interview of ........................... 25
4 Maynard McBurney continued to
be played)
5
(Recorded interviewed of ......................... 25
6 Maynard McBurney continued to
be played)
7
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10
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12
13
14
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